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Why you don't train Capitals on your 'main'.
Why you don't train Capitals on your 'main'.
Most people want to get into capitals. Dreads are a great example of this. Great great ship, but it causes you to get 'stuck' in a bad loop.
You always train capitals on a dedicated alt. This is a multiple reason why answer. And you can deny these if you want, but talk to a professional you know besides me.
There is a mistake made in eve called Bigger isn't better.
Capitals fail to apply to smaller ships, and smaller ships ALWAYS kill capitals.
The only time that capitals die to other capitals are capital brawls, which are really really rare.
You end up waiting for hours on end for a CHANCE a capital brawl. So you don't really 'play the game' while waiting.
You also end up with SO MANY wasted skill points.
This is because Capitals use dedicated skills that are USUALLY not that transferrable to other ships.
Skills trained on your main for capitals are wasted skill points. Like the required Jump Drive Calibration 5, which is a 72 day skill train. Scroll to the bottom of the page to see an example of a skill train plan.
You cannot fly a capital without some of these skills, like JDC 5.
Any skills trained on your main for ship specific ones, like an ishtar, does nothing to help your capitals, usually.
The magic 14 and the individual weapon applies, but every other skill usually is wasted skill points.
The capitals need a secondary character to light a cyno, every single time. So you put your 'main' into a cyno ship, usually a recon, as it gives you other options.
You CANNOT use a capital as a solo player. It requires that second character at all times to be possibly available.
You cannot use a capital, at all, in any main hub like your home system. Because you save capitals by Jumping to a cyno, not by warping to them.
When tackled in your main hub, the fleet can be prevented from warping to you through dictors, so you CANNOT be saved at all.
You cannot kill anything in a capital against a smart fleet.
And those smart fleets will hunt you for HOURS if they know you are being stupid and ignoring all these warnings :D
An example:
You have 5 million sp over the past year or so. Mostly in drones, vexor, etc.
You are given a free dread, told to train up to fly this revelation navy issue.
You now have to do literally a full year of training to fly it. Cannot improve your vexor skills during that time.
Or you could start your alt now. They would have a full year of training as well, plus like 2 months of the base skills your main had.
If you trained your main, you then have to have that second char in the recon or TRAP your character in that dread for when people go out and fight.
So don't do it! Have a dedicated account for flying capitals
Editors note: this was based on Pandemic Horde's requirements from 2018 to 2025.
This is your eve tip of the day on capitals. (note, heavy horde focus, I'm sorry)
Carriers (Thanatos preferred) - A really big Vexor that kills fighters Note: 2025, Carriers have been nerfed into the ground!
Force Auxiliary aka FAX (Apostle) - A very big repper that delays our stuff dying
Super Carrier aka supers (Nyx) - An even bigger Vexor that kills citadels
Dreadnaught (Revelation or whatever) - A really expendable big gun that kills supers Note: 2025, everyone needs dread alts!
Titan (Erebus/Avatar) - The biggest gun that kills other dreads and titans.
Supercap - Super Capital, covering Titans and Super Carriers
Capitals are not the end all, be all of eve. Bigger is not always better in PVP. This needs said up front. They are used in very specific ways, and only with an FC. If you're waiting for a dread drop, it can be a bit. Carrers are used more frequently in both combat, and in pankrab saves. Supers (aka Super Carriers) are used almost more than carriers in pankrab. Titans are almost NEVER used, it's just the facts. If you want to use titans every day, I'm sorry, eve is a broken game. This also requires 1+ year of training across at least 2 characters if not more. And a huge amount of capital, ~130 billion for a fitted titan right now, can get lower by planning ahead.
However, if you do the work, you can get access to the 'end game content' of eve for big fights. SuperCaps Online is an amazing game. Sadly, we only get it four times a year, and you NEVER know when it will happen. This is also what wins us wars. Our Supercap strength is the reason for all of our wins. It's not always on field, it's usually held in reserve, but it's so powerful in the game. The rock/scissors/paper that is eve ends at the titan/dread meta. :slight_smile:
If you want to PVE and make serious money, CRAB beacons are good money in the cover of PANKRAB, our supercap umbrella. You usually run these in pairs of capitals, or pairs of super capitals, never in Titans sadly. This is end game ratting but has tons of rules. Marauders are the usual entrypoint to PANKRAB.
Still interested? Well, you gotta train a LOT of SP. But sadly, it's not on your main. Your main is your subcap character, and ideally in the subcap fleets. You also need a FAX pilot to really help out your capital. While you don't 100% have to be in an ESI-gated group, it helps a lot. (Pandemic Horde Inc is 'non-gated'.) However, training a thanatos as your first 'suitcase' to bring all your fleet doctrines is great, even non-gated.
If you're moving these solo, you need to be very careful. If you are stuck in a bad way, you talk to an FC. If you got left behind, you talk to an FC. If you are struggling, you can reach out to an NBI, but they most likely will send you to someone who specializes in capitals.
Here is the training plan you might consider. Again, multi year train, JDC 5 is required, and everything takes a long long time.
Main - Subcaps (cyno pilot, need Recon 5, Cyno 5)
Alt1 - Dreadnaught (any) -> Avatar/Erebus
Alt2 - Thanatos (Carriers not worth flying) -> (maybe Apostle if 3 accounts) -> Nyx
Alt3 - Fly any one of the above, dedicated fax alt preferred
Alt4 - Avatar/Erebus
Alt5 - Avatar/Erebus again
etc
https://www.pandemic-horde.org/forum/index.php?threads/info-horde-capital-group-skill-requirements-and-applying.2199/ - Capital thread with all the skills needed. Join Cap group to see what you need for supercaps.
https://www.pandemic-horde.org/forum/index.php?threads/b-i-g-pankrab-hordes-umbrella-how-to-use-it-and-pve-guides-fits-2-1-updated-2024-08-12.3893/ - PANKRAB thread with all the different options.
Pandemic Horde Training plan
For those looking for trianing plans and suggestions, this was the Horde training plan from 2025:
Capital Program
As many of you are aware horde has a capital ship group. This thread will explain the process of joining the capital group as well as the requirements.
Personnel
The current administrative head of capital group is (redacted). Applications are handled by the application team and our capital FCs run the in game fleets.
What the capital group offers
Use of a subforum and discord server to coordinate fits, skill plans, tactics and to organize fleets.
What we expect of you
We expect you to actively develop your skills and knowledge of capital ships, using the capital group as a central resource. It is expected that you actively use your capital ship(s), following doctrine changes and deployments.
Requirements
- As always we try to keep the capital group as accepting of new capital pilots both young and old. Capital ships are large and expensive and as such there are some minimum skill requirements that you must meet before applying.
- It is HIGHLY SUGGESTED that you use an account that is separated from you main sub capital pilot.
- On a strategic level Horde uses armor capital ships. Shield capital ships are welcomed however armor capitals are preferred.
- You are required to maintain 15 kills per 30 days in order to maintain access to horde capital group
Skill Requirements
Note: you MUST meet these skill requirements before applying. "in training" does not count towards meeting these requirements.
All Pilots:
Must have their intended capital pilot in Horde (this is a requirement to prevent standing issues)
No characters in non horde-friendly alliances.
Must be on Horde Discord
Must have the following skills
Jump Drive Calibration V
Jump Fuel Conservation IV
Resistance Phasing IV
Be able to fit Tech 2 tank
Hull Upgrades V
Tactical Shield Manipulation IV
Shield Upgrades IV
Energy Pulse Weapons I
Capacitor Management V
Capacitor Systems Operation V
Advanced Target Management III
Carriers
Armor carriers are currently preferred on a strategic level. As such it would be wise to cross train into an armor carrier for the purposes of strategic objectives at this time.
Must have the following skills
Fighters III
Support Fighters III
Light Fighters III
Fighter Hangar Management IV
Racial Carrier skill III
The following support skills to IV
Drone Navigation
Drone Durability
Drone Sharpshooting
Drone Interfacing
Armor compensation skills to IV
Explosive Armor Compensation
Thermal Armor Compensation
EM Armor Compensation
Kinetic Armor Compensation
Armor Layering IV
The following skills to IV
Afterburner
Acceleration Control
Fuel Conservation
Force Auxiliary
Armor force auxiliaries are preferred on a strategic level. As such it would be wise to cross train into an armor force auxiliary for the purposes of strategic objectives at this time.
Must have the following skills
Racial Carrier Skill III
Tactical Logistics Reconfiguration I
Capital Capacitor Emission Systems III
Repair Drone Operation III
Shield Force Auxiliaries
Capital Shield Operation IV
Capital Shield Emission Systems III
Armor Force Auxiliaries
Capital Repair Systems IV
Capital Remote Armor Repair Systems III
Armor compensation skills to IV
Explosive Armor Compensation
Kinetic Armor Compensation
Em Armor Compensation
Thermal Armor Compensation
Armor Layering IV
Dreadnoughts
All dread types are welcome as they can operate independently of force auxiliaries and carriers
Must have the following skills
Tactical Weapon Reconfiguration I
Weapon Upgrades V
Advanced Weapon Upgrades V
Racial Dreadnought skill III (Zirnitra requires level IV)
Racial capital gun skill III
Capital Hybrid Turret (Moros)
Capital Energy Turret (Revelation)
XL Torpedoes (Phoenix)
Capital Projectile Turret (Naglfar)
Capital Precursor Weapon IV (Zirnitra)
The following Gunnery support skills to IV (for non-phoenix pilots)
Controlled Bursts (Naglfar pilots are not required to train this)
Motion Prediction
Rapid Firing
Sharpshooter
Surgical Strike
Trajectory Analysis
The following missile support skills to IV (Phoenix pilots only)
Guided Missile Precision
Missile Bombardment
Missile Porjection
Rapid Launch
Target Navigation Predicition
Warhead Upgrades
Shield Dreadnoughts
Capital Shield Operation IV
Armor Dreadnoughts
Armor Compensation Skills to IV
Explosive Armor Compensation
Kinetic Armor Compensation
EM Armor Compensation
Thermal Armor Compensation
Supercapital Pilots
At a minimum you require JDCV, all drone/fighter support skills to 4, racial carrier skill to 4 and have heavy fighters trained to 4
There is a more detailed list of requirements that can be found once you have been accepted into horde's capital group
It is HIGHLY SUGGESTED that you use an account that is separated from you main sub capital pilot.
Rorqual Pilots
Since the implementation of the Rorqual group (Found here) we are no longer allowing pilots who fly only rorquals into horde capital group
Please join the appropriate groups and apply to horde capital group when you would like to see pvp action in a capital class ship
Skill Check Tool
To facilitate your application to horde capital group there is an online tool that will check what ships you currently meet the requirements for. It can be found here: Capital skill checker
How to Apply
If you meet the minimum requirements above, you’re almost there!
Before you apply, make sure you meet the requirements to join cap group as listed here: https://www.pandemic-horde.org/settings/groups/apply
Do not hit "apply" to the auth group at this point finish the rest of the application first.
The requirements you should see are listed here:
Complete ESI Scopes in square for all Characters
15 kills in last 30 days
30 kills all time
Basic skill check of core cap group requirements
Once you have made sure that you meet the above requirements, and have an accepted skill-check URL, follow the steps below to apply to cap group.
Make sure your full API scopes are in Horde Square 2.0 for all characters at: https://www.pandemic-horde.org/settings/infoscopes/scopes
Fill in the following google form: https://goo.gl/forms/dal0feF3rsA5NBH13
Ensure you have completed the above skill check as it is required for this application.
Please make sure you have actually read and done what the form asks before just hitting the boxes as we do check whether you have or not, they are mostly there as a reminder for you before you get denied for not doing everything you were supposed to.
Send 50 million ISK (50,000,000) to the character "Horde Capital Group"
This is a non refundable fee per app. If you fail the app process (e.g. low skills) and re-apply, you must pay this again.
Now if you are sure you have done everything right. Apply to the Auth group at this point.
Next Steps
Our Admin team will check your submitted application. If you’re good to go, we’ll welcome you to the Capital group, you will then gain access to our subforum and discord server so ensure you Join the discord in settings on Horde square. If you do not meet skill requirements, or have other issues with you application, we will let you know what you are missing so you can fix it and apply again.
Final Notes
If you want a capital ship, you are expected to be somewhat self sufficient with your ability to afford it. We do, however, currently offer basic SRP.
We can, and will, refuse entry to the program if we believe that you are a risk to other pilots involved through deliberate misinformation or hostile attitude. We will not deny you for simply not knowing something.
Being in the cap group does not allow you to “one up” other people in Horde for any reason. Elitism is a no. Anyone doing this will be purged from the group.
Frequently asked questions
Q. Does every requirement in the list to apply have to be met by one character?
A. No! The requirements can be met by separate characters, and only have to be met by one character each. This means that your capital pilot does not have to meet the kill requirements if your main character already does.
Q. Do I have to apply with all my cap alts to the cap group?
A. No, you do not need to make a separate application for each capital alt.
Q. Do I have to be in cap group to fly capitals in Horde? Will bad things happen if I fly a capital while not in the group?
A. You are not required to be in capital group to fly a regular capital (Carrier, Dreadnought, Force Auxiliary) however it is highly recommended. You ARE required to be in cap group if you fly a supercarrier or titan.
Q. I don't have the Kill/skill/ESI requirements, can you let me into capital group anyway?
A. .............NO
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